story by Steven L. Sears and Chris Manheim
teleplay by Chris Manheim - Co-Producer
Interview with Chris Manheim
The Chakram Newsletter: Issue 05
SD: Was this your first script for the show?
Chris: No, but it was the first one I did when I joined the staff.
SD: This script started with a story idea by Steve Sears?
Chris: Yes. Steve had written this up for first season, but it hadn’t been developed into a script. I took home his five-page outline and was so excited. I have brothers myself and this was a story I really thought I could get into. The most important element for me was when Xena would pick up the sword, because the minute she did, she condemned her brother to death. And that is no small matter. She’s only just met Gabrielle, only known her a year at the most, and Lyceus is her little brother. And my own younger brother died, so I couldn't give Lyceus short shrift because then I wouldn’t believe it emotionally. For me, when Xena made the decision to take up the sword was the hardest element to fine tune.
SD: To make it believable?
Chris: Yeah. To understand why she would do it. I’m not saying that her choice wouldn’t be controversial, but for me to believe she’d make that choice when and where she did, I had to believe it to write it.
SD: When did she make the decision and why?
Chris: She made it when she realized, for Lyceus, it was the way he wanted to die. He wanted to go out fighting; he didn’t want to be a slave. And it was also, for him, about Xena fighting her destiny. And then, of course, to see what it did to Gabrielle’s life. All of that came into play. I know there was a moment when Lyceus said something to the effect that, “Some things are worth dying for. And this is one of them.” And to go out a hero was what he wanted.
SD: What was the story idea Steve had written?
Chris: It was an amnesia story. Usually, the hero has amnesia and can’t remember who he is. What Steve did that I found intriguing was the reverse. Xena knows who she is, but nobody else does. It meant that she was always aware of the cost if she picked up the sword. It created an inner conflict.
And it was fun thinking of interesting things that might have changed in Xena’s early life. Who would have thought that Xena was engaged? (laughing)
SD: I liked Robert Harte, the actor who played Maphias, and I could picture Xena with him.
Chris: They worked well together. The script came in short and I had to write three scenes that didn't use Xena or Gabrielle because they were off filming the next episode. So I used Lyceus and Maphias. They were best friends and you could explore guy stuff and get a different slant on Xena via them.
SD: We met Xena’s older brother, Toris, in "Death Mask." Why was he not mentioned in this episode?
Chris: When Cortese raided Amphipoils, Xena, Lyceus, Toris and the other villagers took to the hills. Xena and Lyceus led the villagers in recapturing the town, but Toris kept on running. That was his shame. He never went home again. He set out to track down and kill Cortese.
SD: So when Lyceus makes the remark, “Xena’s the only family I have,” it means she’s the only family he has now because Toris is gone.
Chris: Right.
SD: Recently, in the episodes I’ve been watching, it seems to me that Xena is physically more affectionate with Gabrielle than Gabrielle is with Xena. For example, she will touch Gabrielle’s face or hair when she’s talking with her. I don’t know if this has been prevalent throughout the series, but it struck me as odd because Xena is the strong, silent, stoic warrior and Gabrielle the outgoing, friendly bard. If what I’ve been noticing is true, it seems a contradiction of what you might expect from these two characters.
Chris: It’s not something I’ve noticed, but if it’s true, I would say that for Xena to reach out is a way of grounding herself with the goodness that Gabrielle represents. It’s a way of tangibly drawing on that goodness. Reminding herself there is goodness in this world and she needs it to be part of her.
Gabrielle did collapse on Xena at the end of “Destiny” and she kissed her on the cheek and stroked her hair in “Greater Good.”
SD: Right - Gabrielle will only touch Xena like that when she thinks Xena’s dead! This is turning out to be an interesting line of thought. Renee will love this question if I pose it to her. (laughing)
Chris: Oh, good! I hope she has the answer. I sure don’t. (laughing)
SD: Okay - Xena and Gabrielle escape the kitchen fight by zooming up a chimney - are you a fan of Mary Poppins?
Chris: I used to be as a child. (laughing) I remember I had to somehow get them out of that kitchen safely.
SD: So you automatically think of sending them out through the chimney!
CM: I don’t know why. I just knew because it was a kitchen there would be a large chimney where they cook.
SD: I love the way a writer's mind works. Somehow, I would have thought of the door! (laughing) I guess that's what makes you the writer and me the interviewer.
At the very beginning, Xena first sees Lyceus and he says, “You keep looking at me. What is it, is my face dirty?” And I immediately thought of the very first episode, “Sins Of The Past.” Xena brushes the dirt off Lyceus’ tomb and says, “You always did have dirt on your face.” Were you thinking of that scene in “Sins” when you wrote “Remember”?
CM: That’s why I put it in there. I wanted it to be a carry through. It was for the hardcore fans who've been watching the show from the start.
SD: Renee did a remarkable job of portraying the “slave Gabrielle.”
Chris: She was just gray, wasn't she? I almost didn’t recognize her! She normally has this beautiful color, but the grayness of her was astounding.
SD: And then when she put Xena’s mother’s dress on, she was glowing! I know Renee has to share the credit with the lighting and makeup, but she was positively lit from within. And the way Lyceus was looking at her…
Chris: I know. I wonder, if Lyceus had lived, would he have been the male Xena for Gabrielle? Would they have gotten married? Would they have fallen in love? Because he was so like his sister. This could have been the way it worked out. She would have fallen for him if he was as strong as his sister. Which he might not have been. He was a sunnier character even as a child than Xena.
SD: The lines at the end — Gabrielle: “You don’t seem yourself.” Xena: “No, you’re wrong, I’m more myself than ever.”
Chris: In other words, now Xena can live with who she is because she sees it’s the right way to have been. It’s not like she never questions that again. She will continue to question it. But, at this point, she realizes the path she took, however things fell out, is the right one to be on. We’re dealing now with a story where Xena talks about her own guilt in everything she’s done.
SD: Here are a number of quotes from other episodes. Xena: “You know hatred, but you’ve never given in to it.” Xena: “Don’t let that light on her face go out.” Gabrielle: “Am I who I am or am I who you made me?”
What’s happening to Gabrielle now that she’s traveling with Xena? Is she beginning to give in to hatred, on some level, i.e. not doing all she could to save Crassus? If this happens, what purpose will she serve in Xena’s life? Where will the balance be?
What will happen to Xena if she is instrumental in turning Gabrielle into someone like her cohorts in “Dirty Half Dozen”? Is the light on Gabrielle’s face beginning to go out?
Chris: To me, the light in Gabrielle isn’t going out. It's the quality of the light that I would say is changing. It started out as warm and golden and innocent. She’s becoming realistic. She’d been a little village farm girl all her life until she started traveling with Xena. And now I think her expectations and idealism have knocked up against the realities of life. The light is getting whiter and clearer because it's tempered with reality, but it isn’t going out. It’s burning truer, purer, stronger. I think if it went out Xena would be in real trouble because she does look to Gabrielle to hold that light, to keep the light going.
SD: There’s still so much to learn about these characters. I was about to say that I hope the series doesn’t end before we find out what really happened to them, however, we always have to remind ourselves, these are fictional characters! But I sure would like to know more about Xena’s back story.
Chris: You'll get more pieces of that this coming season. Steve’s doing something that is so cool with her back story. It answers a lot of questions. I can’t wait!
SD: You wrote an episode for fourth season called “Paradise Found” that Rob directed. Why did he pick that story to direct?
Chris: I think it touched on areas he likes and, visually, it’s hard to top Rob. The visuals are gorgeous. Our people do good work all the time, but when Rob’s there directing, they do really good work. And Lucy under Rob's hand! I watched a daily and realized we make Lucy push the edge so much, we get her so big sometimes, it’s hard for me to remember she can do private, personal, quiet work so well. In this scene, she didn't even have anything to react to. They had already shot the scene they were intercutting with this one of her watching from off camera. It was just Rob talking her through it the whole time, saying, “Okay, now you see her and now you see this happening.” And Lucy was responding only to what he’s telling her because there was nothing for her to look at. It was so lovely, so lovely.
And Renee had to break down on cue right out of nothing. She just dissolved into tears because of what the character was thinking. It came out of nothing, no fight scene, no building up to it. Both of them did such wonderful work.
It’s a very small episode. It really is almost a cerebral story which may or may not work. I don’t know what the fans are going to think. But it was a very difficult show to write and I think Rob did a wonderful job.