by Sharon Delaney
The Chakram Newsletter: Issue 11
The newly engaged Renee O’Connor sits down to lunch, picks up her phone, puts a call through to the Official Xena Fan Club editor - that's me - takes a bite of lettuce and proceeds to choke! Yipes! Last issue I shattered Lucy's ears with my answering machine and now I'm patting the phone against my couch trying to dislodge a lettuce leaf in Renee's throat. Luckily, it was a very small piece and she recovered quickly enough that I didn't have to hop on a plane for New Zealand and perform the Heimlich maneuver. The intrepid bard assured me she was okay and we settled in to find out what Renee and Gabrielle have been up to.
Renee has been up to getting engaged to her boyfriend of three years, Steve Muir. I told her that Lucy had said, when Rob asked her to marry him and she said yes, “Is this binding?” I guess when something you've hoped for happens, it doesn't seem quite real. I think it must be a moment of magic when someone says, “I love you and want to spend my life with you.”
I said to Renee, “I had a friend who was getting married and when I asked her how she knew this man was the right one, she told me, ‘I couldn’t imagine waking up in the morning and him not being there.’ Not just physically. but in her life.
“I know exactly what she meant,” Renee said. “My friends and I would talk about dating and when do you know you're with the right person. I always thought about what my aunt told me - ‘It's not about being with them forever, it's the thought of being without them at all.’”
It's been an extra bonus of my job that I've been able to share some very special moments with these two women who work on Xena. Lucy and the birth of her son and now Renee finding the man she'd like to spend her life with. I think I'll take a moment to thank whoever decided that, along with all the hard work, every once in a while a warm fuzzy gets tossed my way.
While I'm sitting with a grin on my face, I hear Renee start to chuckle.
“I bought a bridal magazine,” she laughed. “And I've been trying to hide it on set because I'm getting such a hard time from all the guys and girls on the crew. The women who’ve already been married have been talking to me about their experiences. And for them to tell me about their days makes them get joyful again.”
“What happened when you told Lucy,” I asked her.
“I was at work before her that day and I had told her makeup artist, Vanessa. So I was changing when Lucy arrived and I could see out my window that Vanessa was whispering something to Lucy who started to yell,” Renee laughed. “I ran out and we were both yelling. Then she pulled out this old-fashioned camera and took my picture while I was still yelling. When she showed me the photo later, it was priceless! It was so funny.”
I'm wondering if Lucy carries a camera around with her just in case something momentous happens. If so, she certainly lucked out that day.
“What are you filming now?” I queried Renee.
“We’re about to start ‘Motherhood.’ That's when we kill off all the gods,” she gave an evil chuckle.
“It’s kind of heartbreaking. Last night we had our last readthrough for the season and almost everyone who plays a god was there like Alex (Aphrodite), Kevin Smith (Ares), Paris (Athena). You could hear the melancholy come out in the voices of the cast members. Especially Alex. She played it so straight and she usually has a lightness about her character. But she was playing for the heart of the episode. It's going to be sad when everyone leaves,” Renee sighed.
“Are they really dying?” I asked, astounded.
“Yes, we’re killing them. Well, we’re not, but someone is. I won’t give that away,” Renee laughed.
“The funny thing is,” I told her, “I interviewed Rob last Wednesday and he said he hadn’t made up his mind yet what to do with Ares because he was alive in the episode ‘The Xena Scrolls’ which takes place in 1942. It breaks the continuity of the series.”
“That’s true,” Renee agreed.
“In a novel or movie, that is self-contained, you can go back and change things if you decide to go a different direction,” I said. “In an evolving television series, you can't. And you're faced with the choice of deciding which is more important - the story you want to tell now or something you did three years ago. You can't turn down a good story because of something you might have done before.”
“Has it ever stopped us before?” Renee laughed.
“No!” we both said at the same time. And I'm left to wait and see how Rob decided to deal with this dilemma.
“We kill people and bring them back all the time,” Renee added.
Speaking of which -
“Have you done Joxer's death scene yet?” I asked her.
“Yeah, we did,” she said
“How was it?”
“It was not what I thought it would be. It happened so fast,” she said with a bit of regret. “I just thought it was the strangest leadup to a death scene. He gets killed, he's gone, we move on. I didn’t feel what I expected I would in doing the scene. I think it's still hard for me to believe Ted's not coming back.”
“Was it the filming of the scene that was rushed?” I wondered.
“Oh, no, that wasn’t it. I guess it's true life, isn’t it?” Renee said reflectively. “When something like that comes at you. it happens and you're not expecting it. Suddenly Joxer's dying, everything changes, but we still have a mission to accomplish. We have to leave him and go on our way trying to find Xena’s daughter.
“I had thought about how I would play this scene, how Gabrielle would feel the shock of losing him. But it's very hard to grasp the reality that he's not going to be here any more. That's what I was thinking in the scene.”
“I lost a very good friend a couple years ago and, although I was sad when she died. I didn't really cry,” I told Renee. “Then, one day in the spring, I was thinking of the movie Easter Parade and how much we both loved it. That finally made it real and I just broke down.”
“Right,” Renee agreed. “That's what I think. It takes time to understand the loss. So Ted and I are pushing for a scene between Joxer and Gabrielle in ‘Motherhood’ because we feel it resolves our relationship and gives us both a chance to say goodbye to each other. That would be our real 'sense of loss' scene. However, it doesn't play a part in the final objective of the episode, so it may have to be cut for time.”
If there was one time this season the audience felt Gabrielle's pain of loss, it was in Eli’s death scene in “Seeds Of Faith.”
“When you screamed at Xena, ‘Don’t you dare blame me for this!’ when she accused you of not defending Eli against Ares, the hairs stood up on the back of my neck!” I said to Renee, hoping I was adequately expressing the impact her work had had on me. “Do you remember that scene?” I asked her.
“Oh, I do, yes, I do!” she laughed. “Eli’s death was so different from Joxer's for Gabrielle. I think it was because there was so much leading up to it. She knew he was going to sacrifice himself and that it was for the faith of the world.”
“When Gabrielle turned around and was standing with her back to Eli and Ares, did she know that Eli was going to be killed?”
“Yes,” Renee answered with conviction. “That's what he was asking of her. To trust him and have faith that he was doing what he had to do. He was asking her to allow him to fulfill his destiny. And because she loved him so much, she let him go.”
“I don’t think I’ve ever heard Gabrielle so angry,” I told her.
“It was an intense day,” Renee said with a sigh. “It was really hard for me. I was telling the director, Garth Maxwell, that it was probably the most difficult day of filming I’d ever had in my life. And the hours were so long.
“We started off first thing in the morning leading up to the initial conflict between Eli and Ares through the part where Eli turns Gabrielle around. We spent all day working on that up until the part where Xena comes in. And I was crying over him the whole time until about seven o'clock that night!”
“Timothy Omundson (Eli) said at a convention that you had to cry the whole day,” I said. “He couldn't believe what you went through. After filming something so emotionally intense, can you just walk away and go home without it having any effect on you?”
“You feel terrible. You also feel a bit ridiculous,” she laughed. “I still find it embarrassing to show such strong emotions in front of the crew. You really have to trust that you’re not making a complete idiot of yourself. And if you are, so what. You have to keep reminding yourself it doesn't matter that you’re crying in front of all these people. So I had to keep working against that all day. And, at the end. you take a hot bath, walk away and it's over. Go home to your family and hug and kiss them and be happy you're alive and that your life is so good.”
“Most people, when they're really upset, go off by themselves,” I said, thinking out loud.
“Right, they don't like to cry in front of other people,” Renee agreed. “Someone might scream like that, but they’d do it in a place where they feel comfortable and safe to let out the rage, sadness and loss. But Garth really wanted Gabrielle to cry out loud and have that big shriek at the end that Xena hears when she’s on the bridge. I just didn't want to do that. I hate it when Gabrielle lets go like that. Then I thought, the show’s so stylized, it’s not reality.”
“It may not have been fun," I said to her, “but you did a great job.”
“Oh, thanks, Sharon,” she said warmly.
“The exchange between Xena and Gabrielle at the end of that scene,” I recited…
“Xena: People like Eli wouldn't exist if people like us didn’t defend them when they won't defend themselves.
“Gabrielle: So Ares is right? The whole future is shaped by warriors?
“...Xena was speechless!”
“Wasn’t that great?” Renee said excitedly. “It was so good. Lucy and I enjoyed doing that scene because we could really get our teeth into it.”
“It seemed as if Gabrielle was taking lessons from Ares,” I teased Renee.
“From my point of view,” she explained, “the writers were having Gabrielle be tempted by the idea of the power and ambition he could stir in her. But I don’t think Gabrielle would ever follow his path.”
“Why was she tempted?” I questioned further.
“Xena saying we are the ones who create justice in the world made Gabrielle thnk, ‘Okay, if that’s the way it’s gonna be, then I have to stand on my own two feet and be as strong as you.’ Xena learned from Ares, so I think Gabrielle thought she should learn from the best.
“Ares knows Gabrielle's weak in that way - especially at that moment. He came to her to try to seduce her and get Gabrielle on his side. That way he could get to Xena. He always wants Xena. The best way to do that is through her buddy,” Renee laughed.
“Did you have any doubts about being able to convince the audience that not only Gabrielle, but Renee O’Connor stood any chance at all in a fight with Ares - played by the very tall Kevin Smith?” I asked, hoping Renee wouldn't take a poke at me the next time we met for my temerity in asking this question. “There's quite a height difference.”
Renee said with absolute innocence and conviction, “I never thought about it. Obviously, no mortal could fight against a god. Except for Xena. I think Ares just plays with Gabrielle. That's the only way we could justify why she wasn't killed immediately.”
“I wonder if the stunt coordinator was taken aback when he saw that in the script?” I laughed.
“I know,” Renee laughed. “I was jumping up at Ares to attack him.”
“I think what made it so convincing to me was Gabrielle's single-mindedness and vehemence,” I explained.
“Ares was just loving it,” she responded. “Toying with Gabrielle and making her even more furious is exactly what he would want.”
“And Ares’ exchange with Gabrielle: ‘You always were a goody-two-shoes.’ ‘Yeah. One with a really big sword.’”
Renee chuckled. “That was funny. Another line that can be hard to do because it’s so stylized. You have to find a way to play the humor without making a caricature of the character. But it was fun.”
“Have you seen the photo of you at Eli's funeral pyre?” I asked her. “Where you've got the scarf around your head? It's one of the most beautiful shots of Gabrielle I've ever seen.”
“I was just talking to Geoff (Short - Xena photographer) about that. It was funny because when I saw the final cut of the episode, that scene where I walk up and then turn away, the camera doesn't come close enough to really see what was going on,” Renee said. “But I remembered Garth had told me to hit my mark and stay there because the camera was going to zoom in slowly. Then I would turn and walk away.
“Obviously very uncomfortable about tearing up, I condensed it. I hit my mark and stayed there for about two seconds and then walked away. We could only do one take because I was damaging all the fresh sand. But when I saw Geoff's photo, he had captured what we didn't see in the episode - the sense of loss. I thought Geoff did such a great job catching that moment.”
The next item on my list of questions concerned “Lyre, Lyre” and everyone wondering if Renee did any of her own singing. This elicited a very large burst of laughter.
“I had to audition for my own singing voice in that episode,” Renee finally got out. “And it was the most humbling experience.”
I wondered how the subject had come up.
“I brought it up that I’d like to try and do some of the singing myself. I knew they had brought in the same girl who dubbed me in ‘The Bitter Suite.’ So I went in and sang for Joe (LoDuca - Xena composer). He was very kind, but it was the most bizarre experience. I started off completely embarrassed and then ended up just singing as loud as I could and having a good time.”
“What parts did you do yourself?” I asked.
“The bit in the marketplace during the ‘Telephone Song’. And backup during ‘War.’ Susan Wood sang the final song, ‘Peace In The Valley’ and another number that didn't make it into the show, ‘We Can Work It Out.’ That was a duet with Xena.”
“I've heard they’re going to try and include that song on the ‘Lyre, Lyre’ CD,” I told Renee.
“Oh, great. It was a good song,” she said excitedly.
“How did you like being a go-go dancer?” I teased.
“Oh, wasn't that fun!” Renee laughed. “It was a great costume. Everyone wanted to have their own version of it for Halloween. Did you see Lucy in it at the end?”
“Yeah! Did you know she was going to do that?” I asked.
“I had no idea,” Renee responded with a giggle. “We had both wrapped for the day and I had already left. The next morning, I heard Lucy put on my stunt double's outfit and did a bit of her own go-go dancing. She was trying to scare Ted and apparently it worked.”
“Did you have fun working with Jay Laga'aia (Draco) again?”
“Jay's such a kook,” Renee said affectionately. “He's just a funny man. He's always singing and dancing and cracking jokes. We were both doing Solid Gold dancing behind the scenes. Teaching each other our latest eighties flashback moves. It was such a good time and I really enjoyed working with him.”
“How was the hot tub scene?” I wondered, picturing hours spent in the water and everyone getting all pruney. “Geoff got some beautiful shots of you with the light pouring down as you're standing in the water with your hair all wet.”
“We weren't in it for very long, actually,” Renee informed me. Then she laughed. “I remember Jay pushing me down into the water as he turned his back to the camera so I would disappear. I couldn't get down. I just kept floating! It was hilarious. You can just see that if you watch the number carefully. You see my elbow come up and go back down.”
“The ballroom number you did with Draco had you in a costume looking just like Ginger Rogers,” I said in admiration.
“Shona, the choreographer, was amazing,” Renee said appreciatively. “She was very supportive because we're not dancers. She would say, ‘That’s great, Renee, now if you make this turn sharper and hold it for a beat and then let it lift you.’ She's so descriptive in her words. I enjoyed working with her.
“She had a brand new baby on set while she was working and she would stop and nurse the little child during the shoot. It was amazing.”
“You've had a fair amount of babies on set recently,” I laughed.
“Yeah,” Renee sighed, then laughed. “They're not here at the moment, but we had little girls and boys playing Eve. They were very sweet and well taken care of. Everyone's watching to make sure they're comfortable. It's bizarre for a baby when they're put into a costume that's different from what they normally wear. There were horses around, people they didn't know and we shot in dark studios. Everyone gets quiet when the babies are there and folks are staring at them to see if they're going to cry,” she chuckled.
“There's a photo of you holding the baby and she's got her thumb in her mouth that I think you’ll like,” I told her. “And also one where the baby is grabbing one of your sais!”
“That was hilarious,” Renee said. “We were shooting and the baby just pulled it up out of my boot and started holding it and throwing it. I didn't even know she was doing it at the time. But the crew were giggling, trying to hold in their laughter. Later on I realized what had happened.”
“That’s Xena’s baby for you,” I teased.
“Yeah, sneak it off of me while I'm not looking!” Renee shot back.
It was now time to get Renee's take on the pie fight in “Punchlines.”
“My first pie fight and my first bloody lip on the show,” Renee laughed. “They were made out of whipped cream and mashed potatoes which were being thrown at us from off camera. It wasn't painful, but so ironic. I do all these bizarre fights and never get hurt. Then I do a pie fight with whipped cream and I get cut. We had a good time. Actually, we probably had more fun than we should have.”
“How did everyone manage to miss Lucy?” I queried.
“We were all very tempted to toss the odd one in her direction,” she said slyly. “But because it was scripted that she not get hit, we had to keep her clean.”
“Pregnant Lady Taboo?” I suggested.
“Yeah,” Renee laughed heartily, “it must have been because she was pregnant.”
“People loved the part where ‘Dr. Aphrodite’ was trying to uncover the cause of Gabrielle's writer's block,” I told Renee. “They really love it when the show mentions Gabrielle’s bardic skills.”
“They like the fact we’re bringing in that she's writing again,” Renee agreed.
“Rob told me Xena's going to read Gabrielle's scrolls to Eve in ‘Kindred Spirits,’” I said.
Renee was quiet a minute then said, “I never realize when situations like that between the two characters are significant to the audience. I know it was significant to Gabrielle, but it wasn't played upon for sentimentality. It was a simple scene and very honest.”
“It's going to be something very special for the fans,” I assured her.
Renee was called back to the set then and we arranged to continue the interview the next day. It was sunny in New Zealand and she was driving back to work.
The first thing I brought up was “Eternal Bonds” and the resolution to Gabrielle and Joxer's “she loves me/she loves me not” relationship. “You weren't too nice to him at the beginning of the episode,” I pointed out to Renee. “And then you realize he's being protective of you the same way you were feeling protective of Xena and you said…”
“‘I can be a real bitch, can't I?’” Renee quoted from memory and laughed. “I think Ted really enjoyed his response much more than I was expecting. He had too much fun.” She chuckled again.
“Were you satisfied with how they wrapped it up?” I asked.
“You know, Ted and I both laugh at the fact that Joxer was in the throes of death and Gabrielle still can't say, ‘I love you.’ But at least she was honest. Pretty sad, though, I have to say,” she laughed. “Here he's dying and Ted kept teasing me, ‘You could have at least said yes then!’”
“In ‘Married With Fishsticks,’ at the end, Joxer's giving Gabrielle mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, he sits up, she opens her eyes, pulls him down, kisses him and then smacks him. Who did she think she was kissing?” I queried.
Renee explained. “It was supposed to be that Gabrielle, in her dream, was kissing Hagar. And, as he looks like Joxer, she was confused. She liked Hagar. He changed from being a male chauvinist and became quite sentimental and nurturing toward her. His kind and sweet soul eventually came through.
I thought Ted looked like Eddie Van Halen when he was in that wig and white overalls,” I giggled to Renee.
Renee burst out laughing. “Eddie Van Halen!”
“And, speaking of Ted, I've got to tell him the fans really liked Jace,” I said, making a note to myself to do this.
“I'm glad they supported him in that role,” she said warmly. “I think Jace had dignity. He was humble enough to have fun and enjoy himself in a way that most people seem to be judgmental of and he didn't care. I thought that was quite nice.”
“Did Ted do his own singing in ‘Lyre, Lyre?’” I asked.
“He sang the whole thing!” Renee said with obvious pride in her voice. “Both Jace and Joxer. He took dancing lessons beforehand. Every night he would go home and work with a video of the dance rehearsals so that he would feel comfortable with Jace's numbers. He worked so hard on that musical.”
“You're one hell of a dancer yourself,” I told her.
“I don't know if you'd call me a good dancer,” Renee laughed, “but I like to have fun. Ted and Lucy and I were discussing high school and how we enjoyed different classes. Ted and Lucy enjoyed biology and I enjoyed chemistry.
“When it came down to Lucy and Ted having to dance in ‘War’ and the other numbers, and my having to sing, we were back again in high school - laughing about how some people just click on to certain subjects and don't have a clue with others. Ted said dancing for him is like taking a chemistry class. And singing for me is like biology.”
“You looked like a natural to me,” I insisted. “I'd kill to be able to move like that.”
“Shona gives you moves most everyone can feel comfortable doing,” Renee demurred. “They're very relaxed and free with the body. And I had that great costume that I just had to shake. It didn't look right standing still,” she laughed.
I don't care how much Renee tries to deflect my compliments, she was terrific and I know all of fandom agrees with me!
“In the Pasadena convention welcome video that you and Lucy did for us,” I said. “Lucy mentioned she was getting back into shape.”
“She's been amazing,” Renee said proudly. “She looks so great and she's such an inspiration to women. Some people think if you have a baby, you'll never get your shape back again. That can be so discouraging. Lucy decided what she wanted to look like and worked hard. Now she looks better than ever. I tease her and say, ‘You're putting a lot of pressure on all women after they've given birth.’” Renee laughed.
“There were a lot of positive comments about her appearing in Gabrielle's go-go outfit at the end of ‘Lyre,’” I told Renee. “Wasn’t that fantastic? It’s so brave. When I found out what she’d done, I thought, I couldn't do that. Maybe because I haven't been pregnant. I don't know what it would feel like. But that’s so Lucy to take an opportunity to have a ball and rejoice in motherhood,” Renee said warmly.
“Does your horse have a name yet?” I asked.
“The poor guy never got a name,” Renee responded.
“That's past tense. Do you still have him?” I wondered.
“Actually, Sharon, no,” she said.
“Don’t they have horses when you jump 25 years into the future?” I said, puzzled.
“If you think about it,” Renee said patiently, “twenty-five years later, they've all died.”
“Oh, my God. that's right. No Argo either!” I realized belatedly.
“That's right.”
“Are you going to walk through the sixth season?” I asked.
“You know, it's funny, I don't think anyone thought of that. I thought of it,” Renee laughed.
“Actually, I'm on, as they call them in the script, a ‘Gabrielle nondescript horse.’”
“Are you going to direct next season?” I asked, getting ready to wind down the interview.
“I hope so. I'd like to,” Renee said. “Rob's doing his best to make it work out for me. He's trying to write me out of an episode so I have a proper prep time. That's not the easiest thing to do now. Especially since Ted's not around anymore next season.”
“I liked the scenario Rob was telling me he had in mind for next season with things like white-water rafting,” I said. “He wants to do a full season of ‘A Day In The Life On The Road With Xena And Gabrielle.’”
“That’s what he was saying to me too,” Renee chimed in. “I hope it works out that way.”
“How do you feel about the final season coming up?” I asked gently.
Renee thought for a moment. “I think, for Lucy and I, as soon as we begin the last season, every day on set will be precious to us. We will know that we'll never have an opportunity to be together again as a family with the crew. We're just going to try to do whatever we can to make it our best season. I know Lucy’s trying to put in as much time as she can discussing beat sheets with Rob as the episodes originate. I think the passion is there to try and go out on a high.”