story by Rob Tapert
teleplay by R.J. Stewart
Interview with R.J. Stewart
The Chakram Newsletter: Issue 13
SD: “Motherhood” - the Twilight of the Gods - the fifth season finale. When the series started five years ago, was there talk about covering the demise of polytheism?
RJ: Certainly the idea of doing a twilight of the gods episode was discussed. But early on, we didn't want to kill the gods because they are our adversaries. When you get to the fifth season of a show, you want to explore something different.
SD: How did you decide which gods would die?
RJ: We weren’t going to kill Ares and Aphrodite because we like the characters and the actors. As for everyone else, it just depended on what would serve the story.
SD: Was one of the initial plot points of the story the fact that Ares would sacrifice his immortality to save Gabrielle and Eve?
RJ: Actually, that evolved during the process of writing the episode. I believe it was Rob’s idea. We started working out the storyline and no one wanted to kill Ares. Then Rob came up with that solution and I thought it was great.
SD: So he gave up his immortality, but he's still a god. Can he pop in and out?
RJ: No. As a matter of fact, there was a scene cut out for time at the end of “Motherhood” that dealt with Ares being frustrated that he can’t do that. But we’ve resurrected that bit in the season opener, “Coming Home.”
SD: Was Hudson Leick (“Callisto”) ever considered for the part of Eve seeing as she was the “father” of Xena's daughter?
RJ: When we cast Eve, it wasn't considered at that time. However, I think in the beginning of the season there was some discussion about using Hudson.
SD: We met the grown up Eve in “Livia” and “Eve” and she was the Champion of Rome. She “wiped out entire villages because they wouldn't pay me tribute. I've drunk the blood of men that I tortured to death!” In “Motherhood” she was baptized and redeemed and set about trying to atone for her past. Was there ever talk of having her remain a villain longer?
RJ: We had the arc, in the broadest of terms, for the rest of the season done during the first meeting after I'd come back. When we started talking, we knew we wanted them to go to sleep and wake up 25 years later with Eve as an adult. But what she was going to be was open to debate. By the time we were done with that meeting, the arc was set. We always planned for her to be redeemed in the season finale. There was never any debate about keeping her evil for a long period of time. It was just how many episodes would lead up to the finale.
SD: We’ve also been introduced to Joxer's son, Virgil, during this arc. Was he named after the Roman poet who wrote The Aeneid?
RJ: That was intentional.
SD: In this story, it was the gods trying to kill Eve that resulted in their deaths. If they had left her alone, they would have been okay. It became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
RJ: Exactly. I really liked that element of it, but I don’t get any credit for it because that was developed while I was gone. I thought the idea of having the Fates say that was a cool element of the story.
SD: What was the real history of the death of the gods - the change from polytheism to monotheism?
RJ: There were many different religious beliefs in those days. Certainly there was a state religion that you would get into trouble for defying. Socrates was put on trial for corrupting his students and teaching them to be atheists. Of course, he insisted in his defense, The Apology, that he was innocent. The idea of one single god being transcendent was always there in Greek thought. Certainly Plato's concept that ideas come from a single transcendent intelligence is very much like a monotheistic god. The official end of polytheism was Constantine's conversion to Christianity. Under his reign, the polytheistic state religion was replaced by the monotheistic state religion.
SD: And because Xena falls into that time frame, you thought you would tell that story?
RJ: Yeah. It was Rob’s decision to do it and I think it was a great direction to go in.
SD: You’ll be visiting gods of other countries during the sixth season?
RJ: That is correct. We'll be seeing the Norse gods. But the stories won’t be so much about the gods as about the whole hierarchy around them. The Valkyrie play as much a part in the stories as the gods.
SD: Who are the Valkyrie?
RJ: They are Odin’s personal guard. They do his bidding. One of their duties is to transport slain warriors, who die bravely with a sword in their hand, into Valhalla. They play an important part in Wagner's opera “The Ring.” We’re doing three episodes based on this saga entitled “The Rheingold,” “The Ring,” and “The Return Of The Valkyrie.”
SD: Xena has been given the power to kill gods by the archangel Michael?
RJ: We're going to deal directly with the way the angels use Xena this season and her power to kill gods will be a major element of the story.
SD: Speaking of upcoming episodes - will Ares be coming back?
RJ: He will be making at least two appearances - “Coming Home” and “Old Ares Had A Farm.”
SD: How about Claire Stansfield (“Alti”)?
RJ: She is in at least one - “Send In The Clones.”
SD: Is she playing Alti?
RJ: Yes and no - it's tricky.
SD: You kept Aphrodite alive so I would assume we will see her again?
RJ: She will be back for at least one - “The God You Know.”
SD: I know he’s dead, but what about Joxer?
RJ: It's a definite maybe for Joxer?
SD: When Xena and Gabrielle first see Eve in the desert, Gabrielle tells Xena she doesn't know if she wants to help save Eve.
RJ: At the beginning of the episode, Gabrielle didn't know whether she wanted Eve to be forgiven because she had killed Joxer. The Furies sent by Athena to drive Gabrielle insane had a fertile field for what they wanted to accomplish. She was already filled with resentment because of his death. Obviously, the sane Gabrielle would never do anything to hurt Xena’s daughter, but a Gabrielle possessed by the Furies is another matter.
SD: Does Ares really love Xena?
RJ: He absolutely loves Xena. I don't want to suggest in any way that Ares' love is something we should get dewy-eyed about. He is cruel and manipulative. I know some people would like Xena and Ares to get together. Well, that ain’t never gonna happen. However, Xena has been with bad boys her entire life, so she's not unmoved by the attractions of this earthy, beautiful man.
SD: I keep wondering with all the terrible things Ares has done to Xena versus how tempted she is by his charisma, could she ever really give in to him?
RJ: You mean in the sense of having an amorous relationship with him?
SD: Yeah.
RJ: No. If they're put in certain situations, she will continue to be a little turned on by him, but she knows it’s wrong for her. Being grateful to him because he saved Gabrielle and Eve and gave up his immortality - all these are things we'll deal with in the next season. In my opinion, the actual consummation of a sane Xena with Ares would not happen. And we're not planning to drive her crazy to do it either! (laughs)