by Sharon Delaney
The Chakram Newsletter: Issue 10
I’m happy to start this interview by saying that Renee got me when she called, not my answering machine. I wondered if Lucy had passed on the warning to beware arousing the electronic beeps on Sharon’s answering machine.
“Hi, Renee,” I greeted her. The voice that answered back sounded as if it were under water!
“Hi, Sharon, how are you?” Renee said.
“I’m fine,” I answered and inquired cautiously. “You sound a bit water-logged.”
“I’ve been a mermaid this week,” Renee laughed. “It’s called ‘Married With Fishsticks’ and Ted and I play a pseudo husband and wife team. It’s a cross between Austin Powers and Married With Children.”
“A mermaid?”
“It was absolutely insane, but Ted and I had just the best time. This episode is so different, we feel as if we’ve been improvising a whole new show,” she said.
“It’s you and Joxer?” I asked.
“No, he plays a different character. It’s out of Gabrielle’s head so all the characters are heightened into surreal images,” she explained. “It’s a comedy.”
Mermaids and Ted and forays into Gabrielle’s head - a comedy - good idea! Actors playing mermaids wear fins for legs. This has been known to present problems.
“Funny you should ask,” Renee said. “Have you heard about the notorious bathroom problem with these fins?”
Assuring her the story hadn’t made its way to America, she filled me in.
“Angela Dotchin was a mermaid on a Hercules episode and I heard she wasn’t able to get out of the prosthetics for hours on end. She had absolutely nothing to drink for the whole day, as well as four men carrying her around the set,” Renee added.
That part about the men didn’t sound so bad, but…
Renee continued her story. “They changed the costume so that we could crawl out of them pretty easily within a couple of minutes. However, we did have to stay in them for at least a good hour or so at a time and all of us refrained from drinking. Alex Tydings, Meghan Desmond and I tried to get on each other’s body clocks to make it easier for everyone.”
“All three of you were mermaids!” I giggled.
“Yes,” she said, laughing. “And they created an amazing set for our lagoon.”
“And now you’re an honorary aunt,” I teased the woman who had decided to add to her animal collection to stave off any clucky feelings aroused from being around Lucy’s new baby.
“Julius is so beautiful,” she said, sounding happy for her friend. “And Lucy’s so in love. It’s wonderful. It’s funny seeing her nursing on set and cooing over him in-between takes. He’s quite special. He doesn’t cry much but he makes a lot of noises.”
“Lucy said the same thing,” I laughed.
“I think it’s from all the noise on set and listening to his mother perform every day,” Renee said, decidedly.
“An interesting point,” I told her. “This child is surrounded by machinery and people talking. He may be responding to all the activity.”
“And Lucy was working into her eighth month with fight scenes as well as dialogue. They say babies can hear in the womb,” she offered.
“I wish a child could tell you, after they’re grown, what they heard when they were in the womb,” I said, pensively.
“You know what would be fantastic,” Renee said, enthusiastically, “is, when Julius is older, to be able to look back on the episodes and see his mother, seven months pregnant, jumping around the set with a couple of swords.”
“Spunky Mom,” I laughed. “You were between trips to Paris and the Cook Islands when he was born. Was that a coincidence or did you time it that way?”
“I tried to time it so I would be in New Zealand when Lucy had her baby. I gave her a due date that worked around my schedule, but she didn’t quite adhere to it. I don’t know why,” she laughed.
“She had Julius the Saturday after I arrived home from Paris. I saw her a couple of days before and we went on a long walk. And then she called me up the morning he was born and said, very clearly, ‘We have a son.’ I thought she was joking at first because she sounded as if she had just cooked up a breakfast or something,” Renee chuckled. “She was so clear-headed! Very concise and articulate.”
“How do you feel about having children now?” I asked her.
“You know, I don’t have any inkling to have a baby at the moment because I’ve seen how hard it is to try to be pregnant and have a baby while you’re working on a TV show. I’ve completely put it out of mind until the series is over,” she said, firmly. “And for now, I can live vicariously through Lucy and Julius.”
Renee continued reminiscing. “I remember working on ‘Them Bones’ and we were sitting in one of the teepees on set and Lucy said, ‘Renee, come here’ as she had done a couple of times to show me the baby was kicking. I sat here quietly and I felt him kick for the first time. That was the moment I realized we weren’t alone!” Renee laughed. “When we would talk about things or just chat, there was someone else listening in. It added a whole new dimension to our scenes actually. There’s someone else there with her. It was so beautiful to have a friend of mine share that with me.”
There’s no easy segue from babies to demons, but “Fallen Angel” was the first item on my list of things to talk to Renee about, so I dived right in.
“Do you ever think you have a second calling as a demon if you ever lose your day job?” I teased and ducked. “In other words, how was it filming ‘Fallen Angel’?”
“That was a challenging episode, physically challenging,” Renee started off. “Flying in the harness with prosthetic wings which must have weighed about 10 kilos. I’m sure I’m exaggerating, but those wings were enormous devices that were an obstacle we had to overcome in all the scenes.”
“I’ve seen still photos that seem to show the wings with wires on the ends attached to poles with men standing on either side of the person wearing them,” I told her.
“It was more like a pole the wings were supported onto in order to hold their frame,” she explained. “There would be a person on each side who would maneuver the wings during the shots and they would take the weight off you in-between setups.”
“Kind of like being on the end of a fishing pole,” I said.
“Except much heavier and thicker. That was one of the first moments that I realized how challenging this season was going to be for me,” Renee laughed. “It became a practice of self-preservation each day as you go to set and you give everything you can to make it through the whole day and, when it’s over, you realize you didn’t have a single conversation with anyone else all day!”
“That’s not like me. I think I was just trying so hard to keep my energy up for that episode. John Fawcett, the director, is quite challenging,” she added. “I love working with him because he pushes you in ways you think you can’t go because you’re physically exhausted trying to lift the wings or doing a fight again and again. But it brought out an aspect of me that I haven’t used in a long time. He also directed ‘Them Bones.’”
“Can you be more specific about what he was making you do?” I queried.
“I would go through a state where I would lose all my nervous energy and it was all I could do to just function in the scene. To me it was really enlightening because I found that I was the most comfortable working off people when I had gone beyond doing what I had planned to do in a scene,” Renee explained.
Lucy has said that her doubles filled in a lot for her in this episode. “You’ve worked with Lucy for four years and you play well off each other, knowing how the other is feeling and responding to that emotion. When you have to play off a double, how does that affect you?”
She was quiet for a moment. “I think that’s part of what I was trying to say about John’s episode. It’s when I realized I was going to be mostly working off a body double and had to stop relying on Lucy so much to react off of in a scene. I had to start relying on the history of our relationship and treat each scene independently.
“But I give so much credit to Polly who was Lucy’s double at the time because she had worked on the show since the very beginning and she knows Lucy’s mannerisms. She did a pretty damn good job in her own performance of what she thought Lucy would do which was very helpful to me. It’s quite a challenge for them trying to interpret a scene without invading the character that Lucy has established. Because it’s Lucy’s character and they’re very conscientious of trying not to interpret the character in a different way.”
“Remember the scene where the Demon Xena stroked the cheek of the fallen Angel Gabrielle?” I reminded Renee.
“That was Lucy. I remember distinctly that was Lucy,” she said without hesitation. “Those are the moments that come naturally between the two of us with our history with each other and the characters.”
“How did you enjoy the Fruits of Temptation?” I asked teasingly.
“It was real fruit,” Renee laughed. “The scene where I’m being forcefed was a great excuse for all the stuntmen to get back at me for when I’ve accidentally hit them. It was very amusing. They had a ball!”
“Really?” I laughed.
“Oh yeah - stuffing bananas in my face. They’re the ones who take the hits and the beatings and they were just laughing and enjoying themselves.” She chuckled again at the memory.
“It was painful watching Gabrielle struggling to accept the redeemed Callisto,” I told her. “After all that has gone on between them.”
“I really enjoyed working with Hudson on that episode,” Renee said, enthusiastically. “She was very generous. Hudson is definitely involved in a scene when she’s on set working with you. And the scene when I’m shaking her was one of my favorite moments of that episode.
“You can give her anything and she just takes it and works with it. I remember really shaking her when it was time to film her closeup. It was very interesting to see her face when I did that,” she laughed. “I think it was John who urged me to try and wake her up. It was funny to see her reaction.”
Renee explained further. “Over the years, actors come and visit us after they’ve done other work and I get a sense after working with Hudson that she’s had more experience since the last time we worked together. She’s changed as an actor. There’s another level to her that I discovered this time.
“It’s wonderful to see that happen because you know that other actors are getting work and experiencing challenges in their own life and it’s nice when they come and bring that back to set.”
I wondered what James Garner would think if he ever worked with Renee again. She had done one of the Rockford Files movies. What would he see in her?
“An entirely different person,” she exclaimed. “Even trying to do that same role again would be a completely different experience. We just had Charles Keating on our show - he plays Zeus - and we had the most amazing conversations. He’s quite articulate about the theatre and he was explaining how there are usually three or four performances of one role that an actor can do in his lifetime and they will all be different depending on what he brings to the character at that time. We were talking about Shakespare and all these amazing roles that are so difficult and every time he would try to present it, it would be almost like a different actor doing the same role.
“He’s wonderful, truly generous in his knowledge and sharing it with people who are eager to listen. I found him charming,” Renee said warmly.
“In ‘Fallen,’” I started, “the Archangel Michael says that the Demon Xena is beyond saving and must be chopped into little bits to prevent her from taking over Heaven. Gabrielle gave into his decision.”
“Well, that’s a matter of opinion, isn’t it?” she said with a hidden smile in her voice I could read across the miles. “She might have said all right, but I don’t believe Gabrielle would ever be able to chop Xena up into many pieces. I just tried to believe Gabrielle would do what was appropriate at the time. If Xena really had to be destroyed, it would probably have been up to Michael to do it.”
“Gabrielle would agree to go along with the plan,” I said, “but is ever hopeful that there’ll be a way out?”
“Always thinking they will be able to change Xena,” she laughed. “What I found interesting was that, obviously, we didn’t chop her up, but when it came down to the fight between Xena and Gabrielle, how it was truly a fight of good versus evil. One person was going to win. That’s the feeling I had in the fight. The love between the two characters was secondary to the greater good. I don’t think I felt that before in any episode until then. The fight between them was greater than their own relationship.”
“I asked Lucy what Demon Xena wanted with Gabrielle and she said, ‘I wanna take her with me!’” I laughed.
“I’m taking this little treasure, this little toy,’” Renee joined in my laughter.
“Your fighting skills have really been improving and ‘Little Problems’ was quite a showcase for the fighter Gabrielle has become,” I said to Renee.
Renee laughed. “I think it definitely helps to be short. You know, you can whip around so quickly.”
“I noticed when Gabrielle was fighting with the sword in ‘Little Problems,’ you were using a two-handed grip,” I said. “It seemed to be a primitive version of sword fighting, not the skilled method of fighting Xena uses. And I find your use of the sais very reminiscent of your staff work.”
“That’s very clever, Sharon,” Renee said, laughing. “A lot of my sai moves are similar to my staff moves. We don’t use the sais as much in the way they’re designed to be used as we probably should. Most of my fights are based on a fist fight and staff moves for sure.
“But the sword, that comes down to lack of strength,” she continued. “The stunt coordinator thinks it’s more believable if I were to hold the sword with two hands because I can’t maneuver it. Which is true. You want to put the power behind the move and that would be the best way for someone of my stature to do that.”
“Great new outfit,” I complimented Renee. “What’s under the leather strips, curlottes?” I said, cheekily.
“No,” she laughed. “Bright orange hot pants. It’s designed to look like a dress, but it’s just a pair of practical shorts.”
“Short would be the operative word here,” I teased.
“You sound as bad as my mom,” she complained. “They haven’t shrunk at all, but whenever I fight in them, they move. As soon as I start to throw a kick, they go with me and they just look shorter.”
“The halter top looks very comfortable.”
“It’s great! I’m really enjoying it. It reminds me of a throwaway Herc costume that I’ve adapted to fit my own body,” Renee laughed.
“When they trimmed the extra material off his pants, they made your top,” I said, joining in the fun.
“They did! One of his leg pieces would make this little tiny top.” She couldn’t stop laughing at this image. “This is the new costume designer’s idea. Trying to find a balance between being feminine and yet a warrior. It’s the best costume I’ve had for fight scenes. Before I always worried about my skirt flying up and shorts are practical for that. The bodice is not restricting at all.”
“Gabrielle finally has a horse of her own!” I cheered.
“He’s beautiful! They wrote in a female horse, but I actually have a young boy that is the most gentle horse you’ve ever seen. I have to tempt him with carrots, anything I can get my hands on to get him to move,” Renee laughed. “A gentle giant. I haven’t said a name for him though. The writers want to call him Amber, but I don’t think it suits him.”
“It’s definite he's a boy,” I asked blithely.
“He is a boy and you can’t hide the fact that he’s a boy,” Renee said with conviction.
“What’s the horse’s real name?”
“Flash! Which doesn’t make sense because he’s so slow.”
I wondered if Renee knew how to ride.
“I have been taking lessons since he was introduced into the show,” she said. “I’m feeling more and more comfortable on him. Sandi Rayner, our horse wrangler, is a brilliant teacher. She has me feeling comfortable cantering and she’s working on defining a certain style with the way I look.”
Not wanting to touch on a sensitive area, I delicately asked, “Is it difficult to climb up on him? Will they cut away when you’re mounting? Cuz he looks kind of big.”
“It’s not that he’s big, it’s just that I’m short!” Can’t say Renee beats around the bush.
“I wasn’t going to point that out,” I said, laughing.
“They adjust the stirrups for my legs which takes them right up onto his back. Anyway, that’s part of the humor, isn’t?” she said, hopefully.
“Absolutely!” I said, knowing all the Gabrielle fans would back me up.
“Ted and I are working with Flash and Tilly at the moment,” Renee commented.
“Ted’s on Tilly?” I asked, suspiciously.
“Well, sort of,” Renee said coyly. “I won’t give anything away, but at the moment he needs to be on Tilly.”
“Speaking of Joxer,” I dived in, “where is his relationship with Gabrielle going? Do you think he stands a chance?”
Renee laughed. “That’s a good question to ask RJ and Rob, because Ted and I want to know.”
“What does Gabrielle think of Joxer at this time?”
“I do believe Gabrielle loves Joxer,” she explained, “but not in the way he would like her to love him. Ted and I would definitely like to explore their relationship and then resolve it one way or the other. I do understand if you’re in love with someone and they don’t feel the same way about you, it’s hard to lose those feelings. Yet I think you can move on and relate to each other in a different way and not always have to talk about what could have been. That would be nice.”
“Gabrielle hasn’t had a love interest in some time,” I pointed out.
“Yeah,” Renee laughed.
“Except the scenes that wound up on the cutting room floor between Lin and Gabrielle from ‘Back in the Bottle’” I added.
“You heard about those,” Renee asked, laughing.
“I saw the stills and then, when the show aired, I wondered what happened to that scene?” I said, curious.
“Anthony is a terrific actor, but I don’t think he was the right love interest for Gabrielle and I guess I’m not the only one who thought that,” Renee said. “He’s a brilliant actor, though. He’s the sort of actor who reacts off what you do - completely natural and honest in the scene and I really enjoyed working with him. It’s unfortunate he was cast in a role that couldn’t eventuate into anything.”
I’d never talked with an actor about doing love scenes and the difficulty of kissing someone you aren’t in love with while heaps of people are standing there watching.
Renee explained, “I think you have to get to know the person. That helps me. Then I feel comfortable. Like Ted, for instance. I could kiss Ted all day because I know that I’m safe. It’s an atmosphere that’s professional.”
“It’s easier to do with someone you know and trust?”
“Yeah,” she said. “Ted’s a dear friend from working with him over the years and I think that’s another reason why I’d feel comfortable.
“I’ve just gotten into this scene study group with a few other actors who are based in Auckland and there are scenes within this group where kissing is involved. I am finding it difficult to go into a scene where I don’t really know the actors well and play the truth. But I’m getting the hang of it,” she chuckled.
“You can’t just close your eyes and pretend it’s someone else,” I asked, naively.
“No,” she said firmly. “It’s not like that at all. It’s an intimate situation where you are working with another actor and I’m always very much aware of who I’m working with. You have to find the justification for doing it.”
“That was quite an eye-opener for Gabrielle, when Xena announced she was pregnant,” I said. “Gabrielle looked stunned. Was she thinking about Hope and the catastrophe that brought down on them? She didn’t look too thrilled.”
“No, she wasn’t, but I don’t believe Hope played into Gabrielle’s feelings at all. That’s been put to bed,” Renee stated with conviction. “It’s just - can you imagine your best friend telling you they’re pregnant and Gabrielle and Xena are fairly close and she’s just stunned…”
“…because she knows Xena hasn’t been with anyone?” I added.
“That’s the whole problem, isn’t it?” Renee said. “She just can’t understand how or when. I thought that was well-written. All those questions spilled out at the same time. How does a warrior princess adapt to a pregnancy? I mean, the whole idea is quite extraordinary. She’s a woman who’s wanted by thugs all over the world!” Renee laughed. “How will that affect an infant?”
“At this stage, have you had to make Gabrielle think about how that’s going to affect their life together?” I asked.
“We touch on it here and there in the new episodes,” she answered. “What we’re most exploring right now is how Gabrielle is dealing with all the fighting and the violence she’s been involved in to make up for the lack of fighting by Xena. I mean, Xena continued to fight during her pregnancy, yet Gabrielle has this need to compensate and help protect Xena. She’s fighting for three. Gabrielle is really getting into the violence more than we’ve ever seen and she’s becoming accustomed to it.”
“What happened to Gabrielle’s quest to stop the cycle of hatred and violence?” I asked.
“She’s evolving - for me, and, I think, for the writers as well. I don’t know what’s going to become of Gabrielle. I know that the true essence of her, where she would rather not see people be harmed unnecessarily, is still in her. Yet she is more willing to become a pragmatic warrior if need be,” Renee said.
She continued. “I think it’s confusing all around because you have these fight scenes that Gabrielle is now involved in and they are brutal. She does not hesitate killing someone if she has to although I think she feels the guilty of it afterwards. Still, there’s no hesitation anymore. She does what needs to be done in order to survive.
“I do get a sense that Gabrielle is trying to find who she is and to deal with all this. We touch on it a bit in a couple of episodes. Just a little bit. About how Gabrielle has fallen from being the bard that we all know and leaning toward the warrior tendencies.
“She’s just trying to find a balance between the two. But that could happen all year,” Renee laughed. “I don’t know what direction they’re taking her. Someone who’s going to fight like that every day of her life is surely going to be more affected by it than she was before.”
“Is she becoming inured to it?” I asked. “Because it’s for a good cause?
“That’s why I believe she fights like she does. But even though we don’t explore the guilt she feels, I think Gabrielle’s well aware of the toll it’s taking on her.”
“I think some of the fans have a conflict in that they enjoy seeing her fight yet, at the same time, they don’t want to lose the light that Gabrielle stands for,” I told Renee.
“That’s what I’m especially trying to keep intact, but it’s so difficult to try to find the vulnerability that she has for human life and yet still fight for her own life without a second thought,” Renee said.
“I don’t know if you could be aware of this,” I told Renee, “but one of the things that keeps a sense of vulnerability about Gabrielle is based simply on how you look. There’s a shot of you standing by Eli’s funeral pyre with a shawl wrapped around your head that seems so pure of spirit. The new short hair may be more mature, but it also seems to be allowing more of the emotion Gabrielle feels to be seen. And I think that has an effect on the viewers in that it reminds them of who Gabrielle is inside and what she means to them.”
“Well, that’s a good thing,” Renee sounded pleased. “Because I know we don’t want to lose that. That is the essence of the character. It’s been a challenge over the course of the season having the character be stronger than she ever has to make up for a possibility of vulnerability in Xena while she’s pregnant. It’s been great for me because they have explored these new avenues with the character that have challenged me as an actor. It’s been the hardest I’ve ever worked on the show, but, at the same time, I’m just thriving on it.”
“Great new coat you have. Are you going to get to keep it?” I asked, thinking of next winter down in New Zealand.
“Oh yeah, we do keep it. I’m just not sure in what saddlebag,” Renee laughed. “The label reads, ‘will appear occasionally.’”
“This is the first winter the two of you have been given any cold weather clothing at all!”
“Yeah, because Lucy was pregnant,” Renee said saucily.
“What excuse are you going to use next year?”
“Uhh - that we already have the coats?” Renee thought quickly.
“The rope fighting in ‘Little Problems'‘,” I said.
“Yeah,” Renee said, enthusiastically. “I think it’s fun. I never would have had the opportunity to do these sort of fights if it weren’t for the fact that Lucy is pregnant. It’s been a real treat.”
“Were the ends really on fire?” I asked.
“Oh yeah!” she answered with pride.
“How about the scene with Aphrodite in ‘Little Problems’ where the horns on your headgear locked with Aphrodite’s and you knocked her helmet over her eyes,” I laughed.
“That was an accident,” Renee said, laughing as she remembered the scene. “It was very amusing for us. It was all I could do to keep a straight face and get through the scene. I didn’t think they would use it. I was just so pleased we carried on. A lot of times, when things like that happen, actors stop. It was so much fun to make ourselves get through the scene. I’m glad they used it.”
“About that photo shoot you had recently - for FHM magazine?” I asked. “You looked fabulous!”
“Oh, thanks. That was an experience unto itself,” Renee laughed. “I was exploring a new side of myself. They were very kind to me. I actually had a ball on the photo shoot itself, but the article was so unlike me. I was quite surprised at how that turned out. I said things in jest not quite realizing how they were going to come across in print. You know, that was probably the only time I’ve ever tried to be something I’m not.”
“You played up to the audience the magazine is geared to?” I suggested.
“Yeah. We talked about the type of people who buy the magazine and I set out to have a good time, to joke around.”
“So you wouldn’t want the man to be the man of the house?” I asked.
“When I say I want a man to be a man, I want someone who’s my equal. Who’s going to challenge me and stimulate me as much as I hope to do for him,” Renee continued. “You have to understand, I’m not married, I’ve been independent all my life and I am, thank God, a successful working actor. I’m pretty well grounded in who I am as a person.
“A lot of times you get these men who try so hard to be sensitive to the feminist issues of our day and they lose sense of who they are. I think it’s so important that doesn’t happen. For the article, we talked about how much people can learn from each other and I love learning from my partner. None of that made the article,” Renee sighed.
“What I enjoyed most about doing that photo shoot,” Renee said thoughtfully, “was finding I could be comfortable enough in myself to get up there and be confident even if it’s a fleeting moment in time. It’s an experience every woman should have.”