written by R.J. Stewart - Executive Producer
The Chakram Newsletter: Issue 06
SD: I think in this episode you wrote one of the cruelest lines ever spoken to Xena. Xena asks Najara if she has told Gabrielle about Xena's vision and Najara answers, “That would hurt her. I don't ever want to do that. That’s your job.” Oh my God!
RJ: I thought it was important to say that because there's no question that Xena has hurt Gabrielle in a way that Najara never would. Who is to say Gabrielle is better off with Xena than Najara. Particularly now that Gabrielle has been initiated into the Light. Najara does have that religious fanaticism part of her, but, technically Gabrielle is now in the fold, so she would never hurt her. But Xena, we know, would! And so, I think that's one place Najara really does have the moral high ground.
SD: The ongoing debate is whether Najara is any worse than Xena?
RJ: Obviously I wanted that ambiguity to be there. I'll tell you, I loved writing “Crusader.” I wanted to come up with a new villain. I thought of Joan of Arc, called Rob, he loved it. It was a great experience writing the script. Once you start seeing dailies, you start wondering how it’s going to fit together. So it’s not like it was a pure ride all the way through. But that it turned out so good and people like it so much is really one of the most satisfying things. “Crusader” and the “Debt” episodes are probably the two peaks for me.
SD: So one of the goals this season was to find another really good villain?
RJ: Yeah. I pitched the story to my wife. I remember sleeping on it, waking up and thinking. “Why not?” I wondered what would happen if a hero from a different value system ran into Xena. This person thinks of themself as a hero, they just have different values. How would that work? But the more I spoke about it, it was getting too abstract. And when I woke up the next morning, I remember thinking of Joan of Arc! In other words, a religious zealot. She would appear to be good in every way except this little kink she's got that she has to kill people who don't truly convert to the Light.
SD: Does she have a good heart?
RJ: Well, we're gonna explore that now. I would say she's totally sincere in what she believes. However, if you're in that village she's decided is an evil village and she’s going to kill you, it doesn't matter to you how sincere she is.
SD: Is Xena better than Najara?
RJ: Yes, I do think, ultimately, Xena is better. However, the one point Najara makes when Gabrielle says, “Xena only kills when absolutely necessary.” And Najara answers, “And I only kill evil people. Why is she better than me?” I think that's the key. I think that’s a really good question. And Gabrielle's really gonna reflect on that this season. Is killing ever justified? If you accept that killing is occasionally justified, you can say that Xena's killing is more appropriate than Najara's. The good Xena, that is. But then it’s really a matter of degree. And what I hope will be apparent as the season goes on, is that Najara got Gabrielle thinking in that way. Now, when we get to the episode that covers that, I warn you I don’t refer back to Najara because we're trying not to serialize when we don't have to. So don't look for the point where she reflects back on Najara. We will bring Najara back in another episode, but regular fans will know, that’s a point in Gabrielle's thinking process where Gabrielle began to question what Najara said to her.
SD: Najara was the first one to knock Xena out. We have seen Xena go against the entire Persian army. How could she do that?
RJ: Zealous dedication and belief in the Light. This fight, I went over to David Pollison, at Renaissance, and sat down with all the kung fu tapes and came up with every single beat of that fight.
The whole reason I had Najara getting knocked over the bar and seemingly out of the fight, is that anyone else Xena had done that to, that would have ended it. And Lucy played it perfectly. She understood it and she acted like the fight was over. That was a great moment. Then suddenly Najara comes flying out from behind the bar!
SD: Why is Najara so concerned with Gabrielle?
RJ: I think this is a person who has a perverse love of goodness and purity and she's met in Gabrielle - as Xena knows — such a gem, such a beautiful, beautiful person Najara sees that too and loves it. And why should irrelevant bad girl Xena get this sidekick! (laughing)
SD: Najara’s closing line, “I forgive you Gabrielle.” She was still focused on her.
RJ: That was in there from the very beginning. That was always my closing line. For a while I didn't know if I could get there. As I was writing it, I was thinking, “Can I get to the point where we really believe that's Najara's highest priority?” There was one draft I had them tie Najara out in the middle of the desert. I wanted to avoid the similarity with Callisto who also ended up in chains the first time. But I finally thought Xena's either gonna kill her or turn her over to the authorities.
SD: It did bring back images of Callisto, but that, for me, gave it an extra chill. Great, Xena’s tried this before and look how it turned out!
RJ (laughing): Right.
SD: Some fans thought that might have been Najara on the cross in the crucifixion scene.
RJ: Definitely make it clear that it’s Gabrielle on the cross and not Najara.
SD: At the end when Gabrielle accuses Najara of wiping out a village and Najara says it was a village of pirates, I didn’t know whether to believe her or not. And it looked like Gabrielle didn't either.
RJ: Najara is not looking to go out and just kill non-believers. If they’re good people, that's fine. But if they're evil people, she's going to kill them or convert them. If it was purely that, she'd be a villain only in legalistic terms. I felt I needed to make her more of a clear-cut villain. And that's why, if she knows seven people are evil and she's not sure about the other three, she’ll kill all ten and let the Light straighten it out. That's where we, as twentieth century Americans, find her repulsive. But that’s certainly a very crusader-like attitude. It’s what a certain type of zealot religious attitude brings you. There was no question that those were pirates. But there were no babies there. I didn’t want her to kill babies. That totally eliminates the ambivalence if she’s murdering children.
However, she did go in and wipe out all the men from 18 to 60. Now, I’m making this up as I go along. This was a pirate town, but two of the men happened to be captives and one was a preacher from another religion. So she killed at least three innocent people. But she doesn't care. The transcendent importance is to wipe out evil.
The country we live in is based on the principle that no one has the ultimate ability to judge what’s good for everyone else. That’s why we have a checks and balances system. And I think that's why an American audience would see her as a villain.
SD: Who are the Jinn and how do they know what Xena's vision is?
RJ: The Jinn are spiritual powers. In Arab mythology, they are genies, the predecessors of angels. I think Najara's incredible spiritual brilliance and fervency attracts the Jinn who try to communicate with her. Sufi literature is full of talk about how the Jinn are innocent. They're helping her, by telling her who's evil and what's inside people’s hearts, without being really sophisticated about what it's accomplishing. And they're not always there for her. In the world we've created, this is a specific race of very innocent naive angels who think Najara's good.
SD: Why did Xena follow Gabrielle and Najara to the swan pond?
RJ: Xena still doesn't trust Najara totally and she just went off with her best friend. So Xena's keeping an eye on them. She went to see that Gabrielle was safe and got an earful. Not only is Gabrielle safe, but she's safer with her than she is with me.
I think maybe at first there was a little envy or jealousy, but not long. I didn't want to play that in this episode.
SD: I also thought Xena is going to try anything she can to find out what's going on with Gabrielle. She wants to learn more so she can help with Gabrielle’s pain and confusion.
RJ: That's what “Crusader” is about. “I should leave her with someone who is better for her.”
SD: Would Gabrielle have stayed at the hospice?
RJ: I really thought this out. Xena will ride off, take care of Marat, send a message back to Gabrielle that says, “There are a couple other people I have to go after. I'll be back in a few days.” Gabrielle will be busy working in the hospice. At this point Xena thinks Najara's a pretty pure person. So she knows that if Gabrielle asks Najara point blank “Where’s Xena?” Najara's not going to lie. Najara will say, “She left you. She thinks you're better off with me.” By this time, Gabrielle hasn’t a clue where Xena is and she’s taking care of sick people who have come to the hospice. Xena thinks there's a fair chance she'll stay where she is. And Xena really does believe Najara is better for Gabrielle. It's not like she's just leaving her at the hospice. She's leaving her with someone who will take care of her and give her what Xena can't. Someone she hopes will ease Gabrielle's pain. And, after all, as Xena says, “I seem to hurt her.”
SD: Great line - “One of those good chewing teeth.”
RJ (laughing): I loved the way Lucy did that scene.
SD: Xena wakes up, checks out her missing molar and takes off to get Gabrielle away from Najara. Would Xena have killed her?
RJ: Oh yeah. Najara whipped her butt, took Gabrielle away from her, knocked out a good tooth. She brought out the old dark Xena that every once in a while pops up. When Xena came into the bar and confronted Najara about the fact that she killed people, she was just going to get Gabrielle and leave. She wasn't even going to fight her. Maybe Xena would have said, “If we cross paths again and you’re knocking off innocent people, you're gonna deal with me.” Xena only fought her because she wouldn't let Gabrielle leave.
The take where Renee just sold it was when Xena said, “Najara, I hear you give people time to convert and if they don't, you kill them.” Gabrielle says, “Marat told you that. He's a slave trader. Don’t tell me you believe him!” Xena then says to Najara, “Do you do that or not?” And Najara answers, “No, I don't.” Gabrielle is vindicated. Then Najara adds, “I liberate their souls.”
The take Renee does is very subtle, but it was fabulous. Gabrielle could have looked fickle. “I wanna be with Najara. Oh dear, she's done something bad, now I don't wanna be with her.” But with Renee, you could just see those wheels turning and you realize she’s thinking, “Oh my God.” And the disappointment. That's what I wanted. She played the disappointment so well.
SD: Her heart was broken. She actually thought she'd found what she’d been looking for. Xena says into the mirror, referring to Najara, “We both have the same weakness.” Does Xena consider Gabrielle a weakness?
RJ: As a fighter, absolutely! That's the whole point. For the ultimate fighting machine, Gabrielle's a handicap. And that’s what the scene in the cave is all about. Xena's going to force Najara to deal with what it’s like to have a millstone like that around her neck.
SD: No matter how much she loves her, in battle, Gabrielle is Xena's weakness.
RJ: That’s what Callisto says to Xena.
SD: “You’ve got a heart and I don’t seem to have one.”
RJ: Exactly. And Gabrielle is the key to her heart. Xena knew that Najara cared about Gabrielle in the same way. It’s all about fighting. She understands loving Gabrielle makes her a fuller person.
SD: Is Gabrielle afraid of Xena's dark side?
RJ: Absolutely. I think it fascinates her too. Driving fast, sky-diving — dangerous things fascinate people. But it also scares her because she has seen it turn on her.
SD: When you're young, danger equals adventure. And that's what Gabrielle wanted when she decided to follow Xena. Xena is the embodiment of adventure.